Culture: Is There a Right Way to Pair Wine? | Wine Enthusiast
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Is There a Right Way to Pair Wine?

In the past, wine pairings were ruled by dictates like “red wine goes with red meat,” “white wine goes with white meat and fish” and “sweet wines with desserts.” But is there truly a right or wrong way to pair wine? What about pairing foods less traditionally thought of in a wine context, like street food or snacks? Can you pair wine with art, music or simply one’s mood?

In this episode, I sit down with Jermaine Stone to discuss these questions. Stone is the founder of Cru Luv Wine and the critically acclaimed podcast Wine and Hip Hop. He also stars in Street Somm, a new show on the Tastemade streaming channel. In each episode, which centers around a different city, Stone brings people of diverse backgrounds together on a culinary, wine-splashed journey.

Listen as Stone explains how his background in music led him to wine; how he breaks preconceived notions surrounding food and wine pairings; why music is a great way to bring people to wine; and what he believes makes a great wine pairing.

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Episode Transcript

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting.

Speakers: Jacy Topps, Jermaine Stone

Jacy Topps  00:08 

Hello, and welcome to the Wine Enthusiast podcast. You’re serving them drinks culture, and the people who drive it. I’m Jacy Topps. This week we’re taking on wine pairings. Is there a right or wrong way to pair wine? Can you pair wine with art, music or mood? What about street food, or snacks? Well, I sat down with Jermaine Stone to discuss. Jermaine is the founder of Cru Love Wine, and the critically acclaimed podcast, Hip hop and Wine. He also stars in the new show Street Somm, a new streaming show by Tastemade. Bringing wine, food and people of diverse backgrounds together, each episode, Jermaine and a foodie from the featured city takes the viewer through culinary and wine journey. So listen on his Jermaine explains how his background in music led him to wine; how he breaks preconceived notions surrounding food and wine pairings; why music is a great way to bring people to wine and why there’s no right or wrong way to pair wine. 

Jacy Topps  01:18 

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Jacy Topps  02:16 

Hi, I’m Jacy Topps. This week I’m sitting down with Jermaine Stone. Jermaine is the CEO and founder of Cru Love Wine and the critically acclaimed Wine and Hip-Hop podcast. He was also one of Wine Enthusiast 40 under 40 Tastemakers back in 2020. Welcome Jermaine. I’m so glad you can join us today. 

Jermaine Stone  02:38 

So glad to be here. Wow. Feels like 2020 was such a long time ago. It was only three years. I know. Right? It’s like it seems just like yesterday, but for me also seems like a million years ago, too. Yeah, lots happened. Definitely lots happened for me. A lot has happened. Listen, and once again, and always thank you to Wine Enthusiast. I’m certain that many of those opportunities would not had come my way if I wasn’t recognized on this amazing platform. So, thank you guys.  

Jacy Topps  03:11 

Yeah, of course. We’ve been trying to get you on this podcast for a lot for a while now. 

Jacy Topps  03:18 

I’m glad we finally got a good opportunity to do that. Okay, so let’s just jump right in. I want to know how you got into wine. Tell me about your wine journey.  

Jermaine Stone  03:29 

Yeah, so I grew up in the Bronx, New York, born and raised, I grew up rapping, assuming that I was going to be a rapper when I got older. Everyone around me that was what the expectation was. So after I graduated high school, I was still on it. still actively pursuing a deal. But it took longer than I wanted to. And during that timeframe, I was not hanging around all the right elements. So my parents were really on it about me having a plan B, and my plan B was to go to business school. I literally just signed up for school just to shut them up. And it was one of the best things that happened for me because I you know, I’m the kind of person like my dad, if my dad’s paying the bills, he’s going to be pulling the strings. So when I went to school, I decided that I would go to school at night and work a full time job during the day and to support myself through school. That’s a good job at Zacky’s Wine Auctions, which is a wine auction house connected to a wine retailer, based in Scarsdale, New York in Westchester County. And I really just grew from there. That’s really where the passion and love came in. Zacchaeus was a perfect place for me to begin because you know, when I started my first job was packing boxes in the warehouse. So you know, it was that and or cleaning the toilets, and I was down to do both right? But I literally looked at like. You know, whatever the lowest level job I could have was that had opportunity for growth to work in an office, any office. That was my objective when I took that job, and I was gassed up because my job as a shipping clerk, I got to sit down at the end of the day to file the end of day report. No, but packing boxes all day. So in my mind, like, Okay, this is my big desk job. I’m a shipping clerk. But I was very excited for the job and the people that Zack is awesome. The thing that job showed me was, how open people in wine were the curiosity, how sharing and beautiful the culture could be outside of just the beverage. You know, I had to learn about wine in order to be proficient in my job. So I learned how to read wine labels and check them against the inventory that was supposed to be in the box that was shipping. But because everyone around me was so eager to teach, and I was eager to learn and move up. I went from a shipping clerk to logistics. No, it was office administrator after that. So I was a dude picking up the phones, processing absentee bids, and I really worked my way from that, to that was my first job in Oxford. My last job in auction was auctioneer and auction director. So that was over the course of 13 years that I spent in wine auctions. After I left auction, I then began private consulting, after I love moved on from Zacky is the company that I was working at, I would have needed to move to Los Angeles to keep my job. My mom was sick at the time. So moving away from New York was not an option.  

Jermaine Stone  06:39 

So, I just started consulting, working with the types of firewall clients that I’ve worked with in auction previously, you know, that’s what it nicknamed The Wolf of wind came from. So because I’m like the wolf from Pulp Fiction, you know, I was I was a fixer. So, whenever my clients would call me, it was just to fix problems, like any crazy problem, you could think of in wine, whether it’s finding a rare bottle to getting something somewhere, that shipment might be difficult. And like, there’s been times I’ve had to fly to Brazil with a book that a bottle of wine in my book bag just to drop it off and fly back the same day. You know, those were the sorts of things that people would call me to do, because they just knew I knew how to get things done. And I also had a lot of connections in various areas. So I marketed to market myself as a consultant that was not in the wine auction business anymore, but still working with wine auction type clients, and this was in 2016, when this really wasn’t a thing, which is kind of crazy now. But um, I started my podcast wanting hip hop, just so I could stay in front of my clients’ timelines, I needed to make sure that what we not at the auctions anymore, or up on that podium, auctioneering that I wouldn’t be forgotten. And you know, business is a contact sport, you know, so you have to stay in people’s timelines, you have to stay in touch with them, and have a reason to continue to talk with them. And if I wasn’t at one auction anymore, I had lost that reason. So that was why I started watching and hip-hop podcast, a good friend of mine, my man loving dogs and shout to him, he and I, after I got out of auction, he talked to me about like, what my next thing was. And he talked to me about embracing who I was, and utilizing that as what made me unique in the space because I was who I was, I’ve always been this guy, but I didn’t like look at it as okay, let me highlight that a lean into it, it was really lovey, that said, like, look you this guy, like lean into that, especially when you auctioneering all these things, carry that with you, and be that God be the hip hop dude. And I’m like, you know what, that’s a good idea, because that’s ultimately who I was. And I started the show one in hip hop, where every episode I sat with different influencers from either the wine industry or the hip hop industry. I asked them to pick a song or a bottle of wine that was special to them. And I picked the pairing that Max and we discussed our choices on the show. So it was a fun way to have an organic conversation about wine and or hip hop. But at the same time, it was also fun way to stay in front of my clients. So they’ll see these rappers that they love with like old vintage bottles that they love or you know, people in the that are in the wine industry, they might see people of prominence in the industry, hanging out and drinking and talking about hip hop. So you’re getting to see all of these different types of people in ways that you would never be able to see them anywhere else, but also on Common Ground. So the show did really well and from there I utilize content through media as my way of communicating myself and marketing myself in the wine industry. So a lot of my media and demonstrate start really 

Jermaine Stone  10:00 

To continue to market myself as a fine wine consultant, or consultant on the inside of the business over the years, I’ve expanded from, you know, wine auction houses, to storage facilities to private collectors, to then retailers, and then wine makers to now like working with large conglomerates, working with countries wine regions directly and all through unifying the message of wine and hip hop and EU laws and my knowledge on the betterment for the wine industry as I see it. So it’s a lot of fun, man. It’s a lot of fun for some time, but it’s fine. I promise. 

Jacy Topps  10:40 

I mean, it really is a story of like, starting from the bottom now we’re here. 

Jermaine Stone  10:45 


Jacy Topps  10:47 

And all coming full circle. Right, right. So how do you see hip hop as a vehicle to like bringing in communities like other types of communities or other people who weren’t really familiar with wine? 

Jermaine Stone  11:00 

 Yeah, you know, it’s interesting. Hip hop has been a great vehicle for me to insert diversity into the wine industry. But truly, you know, when you think about diversity, it’s not just bringing one culture into something. It’s about bringing all cultures together and diversifying what’s all what all is there. And Hip hop has already done such a great job with that, you know, you think about where it started in the Bronx in the early 70s. To now being this global force, which is created in its own way, everywhere in the world. You have Swedish hip hop, German hip hop, French hip hop, you have older rappers, younger rappers, male rappers, female rappers, every kind of rapper. And so it really is a form of expression that brings all demographics of people together already. And wine does that as well. Like when I started the whole one and hip-hop thing, really, it was from I moved to Brooklyn, and I was having a difficult time finding like wine that I liked. You know, I’m old-world type of dude, I came up in wine auction, my love and passion for wine came from there. So a lot of the stuff that I like to drink just wasn’t readily available. So it bugged me out, that real estate was so expensive. But I could not easily find a good bottle of wine, or a cool place to drink a good place to drink wine, I’d find places that fit the vibe that I wanted, but the wine list wouldn’t end or vice versa. So to me, I saw an incredible opportunity, because I felt like there were a lot more people that felt like me. But I also understood that people that subscribe to my culture, don’t just look like me, you know, and that’s something that I learned in, in wine industry, like old white dudes that look like they could be my library teacher girl. They’re like asking me about Nicki Minaj. Because guess what, this is the first time they had an opportunity to have honest conversation about it, because we’ve already found a different point of relation with one another. So I saw that, just through my time growing up in wine, I saw that through growing up with my friends in the hood, my friends that stayed my friends my entire life. And finding way I saw how I was able to bring these two types of groups together at like birthday parties and things like that, and how they would enjoy each other’s company. So but it was always over this common ground. So with that, I feel like both wine and hip hop exist as their own social equalizers on their own level. But at the same time, it also identifies personally, two very, very different types of people. So in hip hop, I’m from the Bronx, I feel that pride, when I talk about hip hop started here, all the rappers that came from Hey, I rap myself. And so when you think about what hip hop and what rap means to people that grew up in the quarters that I did, it really speaks for us Hip Hop gave a voice to the voiceless, you know, so there is that pride within that, and what that represents for me and what represents for us what it represents for our communities. And at the same time, when you look at all the foundational principles of wine, it is the exact same way with regard to terroir. And the pride that winemakers, wine growers, everyone that is from a particular region feels for their place. The fact that the that drink, are it through its taste articulates that particular spot and that is their representation of how they express themselves throughout the rest of the world. So just in those principles, if what if you’re art describes who you are your identity where you’re from your family’s lineage. And my art does that as well. But there are two different mediums. It’s interesting when we share that and connect with it, and we’re both inquisitive about it. So that’s really what I’ve found with bringing these two cultures together just creates a cool, common ground of people that can appreciate art, and taste and have fun.  

Jacy Topps  15:34 

I love that. I mean, I am originally from Chicago, but I grew up in Atlanta during like in the 90s. When, like, you know, Atlanta was coming up in hip hop, right? Like, and I felt like, you know, of course, I’m like, Well, you know, Atlanta was where Hip Hop went mainstream. 

Jermaine Stone  15:45 

I mean, it is true. That’s true. 

Jacy Topps  15:47 

I like, BUSTA RHYMES I love like, Wu Tang, but it was like, Outkast. It was like, that’s what hip hop was. weighing. It was  

Jermaine Stone  15:57 

No, you’re totally, totally right. And, you know, that’s the beauty of it, right? Like, there are all these different eras, it’s, it’s not to say that one’s better than the other. Everything serves different purposes. You know, I’ve talked about this a lot, where you have like, album cuts versus hit singles. They both exist for reasons, you know, but when I listened to Biggie, life after death, I don’t listen to more money, more problems, I listened to like, you know, the n words bleed. 

Jermaine Stone  16:29 

Just keeping it real. I got a story. But no, but ultimately, for me, everything has its different purposes, when I meant the barbecue as a family barbecue, the first song I’m putting on, it’s more money, more problems. So, you know, everything has different meanings and purposes. So it’s the same thing with eras and music.  

Jacy Topps  17:04 

Absolutely. Well, I’m glad you brought up diversity, because I kind of feel like the industry as a whole wasn’t talking about that. Since 2020, like, you know, in the aftermath of George Floyd, and the protests, and I want to know, like, do you think the wine industry is more diverse now? Or was it just lip service? Was it like, oh, well, and we’re out to make it more diverse, but then, you know, like, not really trying? What do you think?  

Jermaine Stone  17:34 

You know, that’s a great question. And I’m glad we’re talking about this. Because really, you know, during that time after George Floyd was murdered, as you know, every single industry, I mean, if you

sold headlights for cars, you would try to show how diverse your company like it was everything, streets, whatever you could think of. But I think that the wine industry, in my opinion, could just be simply because you know, once you buy a Honda Accord you see Honda Accords all day. But I think that the wine industry has done such an amazing job putting in an effort to bring in diversity. I haven’t noticed any other industries with a film to fashion to anything that has like that individual aspect of it, that subjective part to it. I saw the shift change. I saw the fat change, however, was one. I’m still doing multiple diversity talks every single year, everything from client education on ways to bring in diversity, to working with clients in diversity initiatives, people reaching out to me, you know, I see the people that show up at my events. So from my perspective, I’ve definitely seen a bit more with change. You know, an example is recently hosted an event actually, just last weekend, I just got back from Burgundy. I hosted an event at Clos de Vougeot right there and Burgundy. Nine-hundred-year-old castle built by monks, you know, it’s probably the most historic site and the one of the arguably the most prestigious wine region in the world. And they brought us in to do this huge wine and hip hop event to celebrate the end of a bountiful harvest. And, you know, this is a party that was not paid for by big sponsors, not paid for by the region. Even this was paid for individually by the winemakers put together by you know, my good friends that are Clos de Vougeot Molina and the week as well as Jeremy Sace from Domaine du Jacques, who’s, you know, one of the most amazing winemakers in the world and also one of the most amazing humans in the world. But these are, you know, Jeremy like Jeremy Seysses  to just make Internet and I’m sorry, Jeremy, because he probably would not want me shouting them out like this. But you know, that’s a great testament to exactly what you’re talking about. These are people who a problem was highlighted to them from that. But like a minute, I was cool with Jeremy since before that Jeremy had been supporting. But, you know, following that he had linked up with Carlton McCoy and Tahiirah to be a board member sitting board member on the Roots Fund, which is, you know, organization, a nonprofit organization whose entire purpose is to bring diversity. And so, and this is just burgundy. You know, there are people like, you know, I worked with the folks that Château Lafite, you know, shots my man, Jean Sebastian and Saskia De Rothschild there, who and they called me in 2019, to do content, which we put out in 2022. And it only took that long because of COVID. But you know, I think that overall, the change the generational change, and how much wine overall is getting younger, on an executive level, from a winemaker level, I think that it was kind of something that people were waiting for. But you know, I’m there with the guy that runs Clos de Vougeot like, we’re in my undershirt with Mike D DJ, in a crowd of 500 people, I’m rocking full sweat. 

Jermaine Stone  21:26 

We go people breakdancing. downstairs. We got MC solar, who was like the founding father of hip hop and France has randomly came up and did a freestyle, when a 900 year old castle. You know, and these are the wine growers that brought us in to do this right. And the good folks at Clos de Vougeot we’re forward thinking enough and, and understanding and welcoming the growth and change in wine. So that’s a lot of what I’ve seen. I do think that we still have people that speak different languages. Everywhere has opportunists. And believe me, I have seen the opportunities. I don’t work with everyone. I’ll tell you that much. When I was when I see you with a smile, and you just trying to take a picture. So you can seem like you’re supporting the cause. But you don’t want it like no, we don’t do those. 

Jacy Topps  22:20 

What the real people who were like we want the change want that. Yeah, yeah.  

Jermaine Stone  22:24 

And this is what brought me and this is what excited me about one and made me feel like I’m a part of it. That’s what I know. Those are the people I’ve been around. And that’s what I want to highlight. So I’m very, very happy to see more initiatives happening. And I do, although it’s nowhere near perfect. But I see progress. And I see people trying, which is you know, nothing beats failure, but a try.  

Jacy Topps  22:47 

Yeah, I love that perspective. That’s a great perspective, because I see people trying to I mean, I know jam that Jeremy, earlier this summer at IPNC and he was great, like people want to do better. And I think that’s it, they get the effort.  

Jermaine Stone  23:03 

You know, people like Dustin Wilson, like Dustin has been mentoring people behind the scenes on the low and the like, these guys aren’t going to say any of this stuff. I’m embarrassing them right now by bringing it up. But you know, these are like that. It these things have to go out there because it’s really, it sucks. Because like if you talk about what you do, then you’re just doing it for the sake of doing for the notoriety. But if we don’t talk about it, people assume it’s not happening. So I’m very proud to say that at least my people and if you see him around me, you know that they’re working for the right thing. So I like where we’re going. 

Jacy Topps  23:49 

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Jacy Topps  24:33 

Okay, well, let’s talk about your latest venture. Yes. I watched the first episode. I loved it. I love Shakira. I know Shakira. Me and her are good friends. And the shakshuka, which is one of my favorite brunches. That was my first time ever 

Jermaine Stone  24:59 

I was okay. It was good, though it was. 

Jacy Topps  25:05 

Okay, so tell me about how did this came about? What are you doing with the show?  

Jermaine Stone  25:10 

So you know, interestingly enough, you know, our last conversation is just, you know, another tell on that, like, I had been doing a show, as you guys know, tasting notes from the streets for a while, while I was pairing my favorite foods from the home with different wines from around the world. So I’ve been doing a lot of food, pairing things online for quite some time now. And, you know, I get hit up one day randomly by Tastemade. With this with this dope show. Actually, I didn’t know at first what the show was, and was just like auditioning to be a host on something. And I just kind of had to like, talk about myself and do what I do highlight things that I’ve done. And coincidentally, there was a collaboration that was happening with Tastemade, and a lot of different brands, from Constellation Brands. So Tastemade and Constellation Brands, I created the studio together. But separately, I’ve been consulting with Constellation Brands since 2020, you know, and it was like, I was reached out to completely separately, both didn’t know what was happening. But yeah, I’ve been consulted with constellation for a few years on that same wave on finding cool new ways to bring diversity into their company. So a lot of the people have already known me. So, it takes me to present this idea with me as a host, it was a done deal. You know, and this was everyone from like, senior vice presidents to like the CEO, I was already in touch with. But I was extremely happy to understand that constellation was taking things that much further. So st. Som, and every episode going from city to city, and I’m linking up with different foodies, and they take me on like a culinary journey through the city to get to know the city get to know them. And of course, they get to know me, but wine comes along as a character, and call it every scene. And I’m always putting together these crazy and dynamic food and wine pairings I like to my goal on the show was to really challenge convention with our pairings. And this is, you know, to really bring our conversation full circle ways that I feel that we can bring more diversity into wine is by, you know, putting wine in a setting where we already are, you know, we shouldn’t have to go to where the wine and the wine should come to us. 

Jacy Topps  27:39 

I love that. 

Jermaine Stone  27:42 

You know, I’m bringing wine into just a lot of these everyday settings. And there’s just another character on the show. And that’s contributing to the success of our experience during meals. But it’s a lot of fun, though, you know, I’ve been able to meet really cool people go to cool cities, try different foods. And really, I’m so glad you asked the first episode, every episode just gets better. And the story develops more and more and you kind of get to see, like an evolution in me throughout this journey that I’m on. Each episode has a different evolution. And we’re really not just pairing foods and wines, or pairing ideals of pairing cultures in the episode that just came out yesterday i Chicago episode I was with a really, really cool artist shot and my girl Jenny, there’s she’s an artist, she does really cool art and one of her her first exhibits that blew up happened after her engagement broke off. And so a lot of what she connected to her art, or art was really birthed out of like heartbreak and pain. And you know, so we really had some deep conversations about art. I got very personal on that episode. Keep that I’m gonna keep that quiet. I need y’all to go in and tune in. Okay. 

Jermaine Stone  29:00 

My property I got real deep on that episode. But with regard to pairing, we didn’t just pair foods and wines. We paired art with scenes, we actually brought art into the pairing that was one point where we had a Michelin chef come in, prepare a meal, his whole thing is the meals are beautiful. And then the artists that I was sitting with Jenny, she actually created she painted a table that we were eating on to actually go along with the actual dish. You know, so we were doing fun things like that next week I’m in Houston. I’m in the studio with Bun B, you know. you know. And then after I actually did not give this little this little gem up. But one of the things that developed during the show was like me reignited my passion for rap and I’ve never stopped writing. I just stopped going in the studio and recording and I’m actually in the studio. On one episode back for the first time, it sparked a thing. And I got like my first because I never put a project out. I stopped rapping before I did that. So I’m actually putting an EP out in December, just from my growth and evolution personally from the show. So, you know, it’s a lot that happens on there. You can learn, you got to laugh, you have fun, but it’s a lot of real stuff that that that happened. And personally, I grew a lot. So I’m really, really excited for people to go out and enjoy it.  

Jacy Topps  30:31 

That’s amazing. So how many episodes are there? There are six episodes. So I had six different cities. We started out in New York, Savannah, Georgia, San Francisco, Chicago, Houston, and then we finish off in Miami. You got 

Jermaine Stone  30:52 

Every city as fire. I love it.  

Jacy Topps  30:55 

 I can’t wait to check it out. I mean, like, the first one was like, like, so good. So like, yeah, it’s all uphill. 

Jermaine Stone  31:01 

It gets so crazy. Like I love I love that because the first episode sets such a great stage. And it’s a great introduction to, you know, to the different characters to what’s going to happen, what people are going to begin to see. But it’s just I’m really, I mean, shout out to that entire Tastemade team. I mean, so many people that named Alan, Ben Joey, Chris, Chris. You know, everybody in there, man, Mike, you know, Ben, like, there’s so many amazing, amazing people that fill lots of people that are very talented people working on that show, and is, you know, you see me on camera. But the real stars live behind the camera and in those offices, because every single person at Tastemade worked so hard on that show, and put everything into it. So it just gave me a lot of pride and appreciation for the position that I’m in, which is really why, you know, I’m going so hard and making sure one, it made me go hard every day on set scene by scene. Just making sure I deliver as great as possible, and that people have fun. And I think that we turned out a good product. I mean, definitely, I mean, like there’s so many differences, you know, out there in the world, but you take these things you took you know, music and food and wine and art these things that bring us all together. This one thing that’s amazing. That’s fine. I’m I gotta say, I’m living my best life right now. Everything aint perfect. Living having fun and all that, you know, it looks great, but there’s a lot of struggle and difficult things behind that. I’m, I am jump on a jet. Jermaine, I’m on all these flights. I’m in all these cities, but I got two kids. You know, I got to bed. You know, it’s not fun. All right, but logistics gets real. But, you know, it’s just at the same time. You know, it’s just such a blessed position to be like, who can say that they doing this stuff? So I just I gotta just go hard and represent for the culture.  

Jacy Topps  33:22 

I got one last question for you, Jermaine.  

Jermaine Stone  33:24 

Yes, you could have 100 more questions. I got nothing but a nap schedule for today. 

Jacy Topps  33:33 

What’s in your glass? What are you drinking these days? 

Jermaine Stone  33:37 

All right now I’m drinking coffee because I believe but you know, my my favorite style of wine is definitely white, burgundy. You know, my favorite varietals. Chardonnay has been for quite some time. I didn’t go from it. I’m one of those people. Like don’t get me wrong, I drink a lot of stuff. I try a bunch of new stuff. But I did just get back from there. And I can still taste more so so that’s what I’d seen in the class right now. However, something that I’m excited about and getting into a bit more of an actually out, you know, I’ll spit out a little wine and hip hop Perry. You talked about Busta Rhymes earlier. Last night. I was having a conversation with this person, and they will mention how much they love busta. And I do want to hip hop parents were artists with a pair with busta and a one of the moments right now for me is fallen Geena, you know, and I felt like falling Deena works really well with Busta Rhymes because it’s a bright, aromatic, tropical wine. You know, it has such bright and tropical aromas. I think about Busta Rhymes. I think yellows and greens. I’m thinking centrist. You know, but at the same time, it’s something fun to drink and Like, I can just hear Busta Rhymes saying fall on Deena in rhyme. It seems like a bunch of rocks and squirt. So, but yeah, I’m really into that. Of course, I love Boston as well. But that’s something that I’m kind of interested in right now. Okay. Thank you so much Tremaine stone for coming in to hang out with us. The pleasure is all mine. Thank you so much for having me on. And, yeah, I want to do this man, this has been you guys have been a very, very important part of my story in my career. So really, you know, any success I got, I hope that you guys take pride in that as well. Because really getting that 40 under 40 definitely pushed me to a different space in my career. So thank you guys again. 

Jacy Topps  35:51 

In the past wine pairings clutch two basic principles like red wine with red meat, and white wine with white meat and fish. While there’s something to be said for not wanting your wine to overpower your food. There’s really no specific formula to pairing wine. Expanding our ideals around wine pairings can lead to a greater appreciation, and a more pleasurable experience. What are your thoughts? If you liked today’s episode, we’d love to read your reviews and hear what you think. You can email us your comments and questions at podcast at Wine Enthusiast. dotnet. And hey, why not sell your wine loving friends to check us out to remember you can subscribe to this podcast on Apple, Google, Spotify and anywhere else you listen to podcasts. You can also go to wine backslash podcasts. For more episodes and transcripts. I’m Jacy Topps. Thanks for listening. 

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